The Power of Church Multiplication

Great post, Bill. Linking to it.

That's not taking into account that statistically, 80% of new church plants fail. That leaves 380 churches that survive - 38,000 people by your scenario. I don't know if building mega-buildings is the way to go, but there are many different ways to reach the lost.

Ok, now Bill you know I am NOT a fan of larger churches, and even less of a fan of that which is preached (to the best of my knowledge at Lakewood) and I just about had a heart attack when I heard the amount it took to renovate the building. But then we started doing some math, and it isn't as bad as it first seems I don't think. First, assuming th 30,000 members (which was the number the news was using, let's pretend they got a fact right) it would be like each member giving appro. 3200 to the renovation. Assuming something around a 60-70,000 anunal income of these member (seems like a safe low number) that would only be half of their anual tithe. As I understand it Osteen doesn't collect a salary and so you are left with 95mil. for everything else. Others salaries, rent, ministry, etc. It's just the numbers are so large that they add up quickly, but for church Kaleo's size (assuming about 60 consistent members) that would be spending unders 200,000 for a building (which isn't much) And as far as rent goes, it equals out to about each member only giving $13.50 month for rent. So for Kaleo that would be rent of about $850 a month.

Now that doesn't address the church planting issues I know. And like I said, you know that personally that's what I prefer. Especially if there were all solid Gospel preaching churches. But I don't think that what Lakewood spent is outrageous as it seems at first to us poor people. The real problems with Lakewood seem to have nothing to do with the member numbers or the cost of the building.

Bill, any person with a heart for true church planting would see it the way you do. Doesn't mean they're wrong. But I'm right there with you, my friend.

Tiffany, thanks for pointing out those breakdowns. I think you're right that when numbers get that big they get scary pretty fast.

I also agree with what you said in the last sentance. Size and buildings are not bad things. (In reference to last post: Spurgeon has a huge church and an amazing facility). It's what is happening with those large numbers of people and inside those buildings that makes the difference. Good feedback!

This is a generic post to all the Joel talk: I won't say much because I think it is high time we stop talking so much about Lakewood and just start praying for them and their leaders instead. As Bill's wife I feel the need to defend him a bit. You may be thinking...here's a jealous pastor of a church community around 60-70 who has never heard or seen Joel Osteen preach. However, Bill and I have watched the services on tv, he has listened to the Larry King interview, etc... So from this and other things read is where our concern rises. There is a good chance that many people are comming to know and love God but my guess is that there is no fear of God. My guess is that they do not truly understand the sacrifice of Jesus' death on the cross and the fact that it was us that deserved to die like that, but they do understand the blessing. I personally would not want to sit under the teaching of a man that is afraid to publically claim Christ!! A man that never acknowledges our sinful nature but will address repeatedly God's favor and riches. A man that proudly lifts up the name of Daddy Olseen with great frequence and rarely Abba Father. My prayers are that through that ministry God will reveal himself and Christ will be lifted up. God is much more powerful than ANY man and I know God will save His chossen people.

i'll be frank- i don't like huge churches. $95 million dollars could feed a lot of people who are dying of starvation each day... that's all i'm saying.

Not that I have a particular desire to defend Lakewood, but I just wanted to mention something that I heard from the pastors at Mars Hill Church in Seattle (can't remember if it was from Mark Driscoll or Leif Moi) when they were asked why they are becoming a megachurch instead of just planting more smaller churches. The response was: They are trying, Acts 29 has planted over a dozen churches in the area, but people are still coming faster than they can send them out. The limiting factor is the number of men that are qualified and called to be pastors. So they have to either keep growing and adding more services and seating, or just close the doors and say, "Sorry, but you can't come worship with us here."

It's easy to fault churches for being big, but the solution of "Just plant more churches" isn't always quite as simple as it seems.

My wife was listening to an atheist/agnostic radio show on kpft a few months ago, and they were talking about Lakewood. They said that with all of the homeless in houston (about 20,000), and with all of the kids who are malnourished, how can a church that is supposed to represent God justify spending that kind of money?

It's somewhat embarassing that this kind of discourse is happening in the public arena. It is not above reproach, and it causes others to sin by becoming judgemental.

Why do atheists have a better idea as to how we should be doing church than we usually do?

I'm not sure that atheists really have a better idea of what we should be doing, but rather different goals. From a humanistic/atheist perspective the greatest evil is death and close behind that is earthly suffering. As Christians we know that this simply isn't true. Now, of course we are suppose to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the widows and children, and many such other things. But those who don't have Christ see that as THE ultimate goal. What could possibly be more important? But we know that it is Christ and Him crucified which is more important. So although faith without works is dead, works are not our end all. I think that non-Christians will always have a very hard time understanding that. That as God's children we are deeply commited to helping with physical needs, but it is the spiritual that are infintely more important.
Regardless of my personal views on big churches (side note:I'm not even sure I'd want to attend Mars Hill due to size even though Mark is an amazing preacher) my hope and prayer is that Lakewood and the Christians who attend there will use their influence for the greater good of Houston's spiritual condition first and foremost as well as showing the love of God through their service to the needy. I think Shannon's point that prayer for Lakewood, its pastors, and it's far reaching arms is the best course of action for all. (Although shannon, I didn't think anyone thought Bill was jealous of Lakewood and Osteen, at least I certainly didn't. Praise God that Kaleo is not Lakewood and Bill is not Osteen) Big organizations have power to do many big and great things, pray that it will all be to the Glory of God.

Wow - this is the most discussion I've gotten in quite a while! Thanks to everyone who has joined the conversation. I think a great number of points have been raised over the past two posts, and I'm going to try to summarize where I'm at with all this:

1. First, please know that I never felt threatened or accused or anything like that. I LOVE the dialog, and would love to see it continue in future posts!

2. I agree with what's been said about the Body not turning inwardly and fighting against each other, but rather staying on mission and proclaiming the glory of God.

3. It is important to not demonize certain sizes of church or types of buildings, but to continually examine the theological foundations that they are build on. I have doubts about the theological underpinnings of many churches - Lakewood just happens to be one of the most prominent. However, I will give account for my congregation - no one else's. As church leaders, we must continually keep our focus first and foremost on equipping the saints in our care for the work of the ministry.

4. I agree with the call to prayer 100%. I pray for Lakewood and for Osteen regularly, particularly because they are so shaping the spiritual landscape of my city (Houston). I pray for other churches in our city as well, asking as Tiffany said, that it will all be to the glory of God.

5. I agree that church multiplication is extremely difficult. Many fail (I have theories on why that happens, and I think we can do much to reduce the death rate of new churches), and it is difficult to raise up leaders quickly enough. I believe it is still the healthiest and most effective way to see the church move forward (imagine if there was still only one church centered in Jerusalem!), but agree that it will take out best strategic thinking, most fervant prayer, and much grace to see it happen well.

Again, thanks so much for the continued discussion - let's keep it up!

Reciprocal post here since you visited my blog, but wanted to thank you for your comments here on your site and to say that I appreciated the "likeminded-ness" of your posts.

God's best to you as you seek to multiply. We're trying to do the same thing with house churches up here in the mountains. Slow going, but we're remaining faithful!

God bless,
steve :)